Join us for the exciting second part of our Growing Indigenous Tech series on PLATO Panel Talks. In this episode, we delve into the entrepreneurial journey of Indigenous tech founders with guest host Ryan St. Germaine (CEO and Founder of Indigenous Tech Circle). The panel is a dynamic discussion with guests Bobbie Racette (CEO & Founder of Virtual Gurus) and Jayde Pelly (Founder of JDP Software Solutions & Associate Consultant, PLATO). They share their unique experiences and insights on the importance of mentorship, community support, and the potential for Indigenous entrepreneurs to start their tech businesses. Discover how these trailblazers leverage technology to create opportunities for their communities and the transformative impact of building Indigenous-led enterprises in the tech space.
Episode Transcript:
Mike Hrycyk (00:00):
Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of PLATO Panel Talks. I’m Mike Hrycyk, and today, I am happy to bring you the second part of our Growing Indigenous Tech series. In the first part, PLATO President and co-founder Denis Carignan joined our guest host Ryan St. Germaine, the founder of Indigenous Tech Circle, which PLATO is a proud part of, to start a conversation about the importance of mentorship, community support, and capacity building.
(00:21):
Today we want to continue the discussion with a focus on starting your own tech business as an Indigenous entrepreneur. PLATO is built upon the entrepreneurial spirit. We’re also in the tech space, a space that has not traditionally had a lot of Indigenous participation. Our train and employ model is only one path towards opening up tech spaces to grow Indigenous opportunities. Working for someone isn’t the answer for everyone. For those people, we want them to see the possibility of starting their own tech company. One of the best ways to gain a seat at the table is to bring your own chairs. We’re proud to bring to you a conversation led by our guest host Ryan, where he digs into the unique experiences of our panelists as Indigenous tech founders. With that, I hand you over to Ryan!
Ryan St. Germaine (01:01):
Hello everybody. Welcome to PLATO Panel Talks. I’m Ryan St. Germaine, CEO, and founder of Indigenous Tech Circle, and the team at PLATO have invited me back today on as a guest host again to lead a panel discussion. I’m very excited to talk about a subject I’m really passionate about, which is Growing Indigenous Tech. And just a quick note on Indigenous tech circle. It used to be lonely to be Indigenous in tech, and we’ve grown a community. Bobbie Racette, who’s joining us today, is one of our members. And Jayde, I hope you’ll soon become one as well too. I’d love to chat with you after the session and we’d love to have you join us as well too. There’s now 400 of us across the country [Canada] and into the states – Indigenous tech founders, leaders, and change makers, and I am very excited to be joined today by Bobbie Racette and Jayde Pelly, and I’m going to hand over the mic. I’d love it if you could introduce yourself. Bobbie, maybe if you could lead us off?
Bobbie Racette (01:54):
Yeah, thank you. Hi everyone. Jayde, great to meet you. So I’m Bobbie, founder and CEO of Virtual Gurus. Originally from Treaty 4 Territory, but I reside in Treaty 7, otherwise is known as Calgary, where I run my business out of. I live and I play in the city all over and I am lucky to be able to go home to visit my parents back in Treaty 3. I’m the founder of Virtual Gurus. It’s a two-sided talent platform where we provide work from home opportunities to marginalized people by building and leveraging AI that does the matching as well as creating more job opportunities for them. Recently we just launched another AI virtual receptionist and it is very diverse and fun and it is now out there scaling. I think we launched it four weeks ago and it’s well over 200,000 revenue already, so we we’re trying to figure out how to keep up with that now on top of our other platforms. So, lots of good things happening and I’m excited to delve in and learn a little bit about Jayde, as well.
Ryan St. Germaine (02:54):
Jayde, would you like to intro?
Jayde Pelly (02:56):
For sure. Well, my name is Jayde Pelly. It’s nice to meet you, Bobbie and Ryan. I am an Indigenous-Black entrepreneur. I was raised partially in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, and on Coté First Nation, Treaty 4 Territory, which is a remote reserve located in southeast Saskatchewan, about 40 minutes away from the Manitoba border. For people that don’t know, I’m also the founder of JDP Software Solutions, which is a small tech startup based in Saskatoon that focuses on web and software development. And I’m also an Associate Consultant with PLATO. It’s a role I’ve held since 2021 after completing their Indigenous Software Tester Training Program. And on a personal note, I’m a father of two and the eldest of six siblings.
Ryan St. Germaine (03:37):
Right on. I actually just want to make a note before we jump into the questions here: Bobbie – Bobbie’s been a huge supporter of Tech Circle, and just to thank you, we’ve just been onboarding, and I’m starting to work with one of the Virtual Gurus there. Its time has been graciously sponsored by Bobbie, and the process has been amazing.
(03:56):
And with that, I’m going to start it off with a question that I like to ask and it’s around your first job, and I know everyone sees us as these tech professionals that have grown and done all these things and my first job was sweeping parkades in my dad’s company. I was very fortunate actually because he saw me getting in trouble, and he’s like, I got to get this kid off the street. So, I mean, at one point, he had convinced a friend who owned a mechanic’s garage to hire me, and I would see him paying him cash to pay to me afterwards. So, he was just trying to keep me off the street. So, I was very privileged in that respect. I remember at one point, they said to me, he said Hey Ryan, go put that battery under the water. And I said you want it under the water? And he said, yeah, put it under the water. And I said, are you sure you want it under the water? He says, yeah, and there was a trow for the tires, and you would check the tire to see if it had a leak in it. So, I threw the water in – the battery in the water and then noticed immediately after that there was a row of those batteries underneath the water trow. And so, I still maintain that he didn’t give me enough description, but we all start off from different places, and I still get bugged about that to this day, by the way. Maybe tell me a little bit about what your first job was, Jayde. Do you want to start us off?
Jayde Pelly (05:11):
Sure. Well, my first job was at the age of 14. I actually got it right on my 14th birthday. It was at Cactus Club Cafe in Saskatoon, and I started in the dish pit. It was dirty. It was a pretty rough job, honestly, taking some heat from front house staff for the backlog of dishes that I would show up to work to. It would already be full of dishes, and I’d have to handle it, right? I think that kind of gave me thick skin and it taught me how to handle pressure and work efficiently, manage my time, and be organized.
Ryan St. Germaine (05:44):
You never get that smell off of you. Do you remember that from – it sounds like Bobbie, that you worked in the dish pit as well too. It’s like, I remember you go home and –
Bobbie Racette (05:56):
Yeah, I worked at A&W and at one point, I think that was my second job or something, and I always smelt like grease. Yeah.
Ryan St. Germaine (06:04):
What was your first one?
Bobbie Racette (06:05):
Well, my first job would’ve been working for my mom. So, for many years my mom is a maintenance and hotel manager, in Regina, so she’d put me to work. So yeah, I think I was around 14, and she had me working in the tall high rises in Regina, which really aren’t that big high rises, but I mean for Regina, pretty big. Maybe 30 floors or 20 floors. And my job was to go through top to bottom, empty every trash can in the building and I stop on maybe every three floors and have a nap or relax. I don’t think I really had a cell phone then. I think I remember laying down back, putting my feet up on somebody’s desk and just relaxing and then continue going and clean up. I mean, I don’t know if it taught me anything other than I remember really looking up to my mom about how could she manage for 600 people like that in all these buildings together. She managed all of the downtown buildings, cleaning and maintenance, and then wondering how I can only do one building and she was doing hundreds of them and stuff. So, it really just kind of taught me, not only resilience, but in a sense taught me it doesn’t matter what your job is, if you’re hard work and you’re passionate about it, and then that’s all that matters. And at the time you do what you have to do to pay the bills and you got to embrace that. And so, I actually started embracing it a bit more and became even a cleaner and moved into doing, even doing the floors with the big floor buffs and started having a lot more fun at it until after high school.
Ryan St. Germaine (07:32):
That is wild because my dad owned a general contracting company. They started from the ground up. I watched him go bankrupt, and then it got better, and then he rebuilt all his companies, but we were cheap labour in his companies when we were kids. And so they realized that doing office towers was difficult because everybody had something to say if it wasn’t done properly, but there was a niche in doing parkade. So I would sweep parkades, and you would have your feet up. I would– no longer for years – but I smoked when I was a kid, and so, I’d be out there smoking cigarettes –
Bobbie Racette (08:00):
Smoking in the corner of the parkade.
Ryan St. Germaine (08:03):
Yeah, so that’s crazy. And so, actually, that’s a good second question here. In terms of that, I was very lucky to get that entrepreneurial spirit from my dad. What would you say gave you that entrepreneurial spark when you started out? Or was that always there or something that was nurtured, and Bobbie, you can kick us off this time?
Bobbie Racette (08:21):
I think for me, the spark was always there. I just didn’t find the spark. I guess I didn’t read into the spark. I was always working, I wouldn’t say dead-end jobs, but I mean, I was always working jobs where that wasn’t a future job. They weren’t future jobs. They were, in the moment, jobs to get me by. And then, I started working at Reader’s Digest in Montreal, and I was there for years. Like years! And I was getting paid very little, and that probably gave me the most of the entrepreneurial spirit because I worked my way up from just a telemarketer at Reader’s Digest to VP of Sales. It helped a lot. But really, honestly, the number one thing that gave me the spark was I needed to create my own job because nobody would give me a job. And that was just it, and that was my spark, and that’s still my spark. Because my name is out there, I know that if I were to not work at Virtual Gurus, I’d probably find a job pretty easily, but before Virtual Gurus, it wasn’t easy.
Ryan St. Germaine (09:21):
I can definitely relate to that. I remember my high school guidance counselor said, what do you want to do? I said, I want to be an entrepreneur. And they said, I think you’re being highly unrealistic. And what do you do? I had no other discernible skills at the time and I didn’t go to university, so that was one of the only paths. And Jayde, how about yourself?
Jayde Pelly (09:39):
I can definitely relate on that aspect. Growing up, I always wanted to be my own boss and work for myself and the opportunities that were around me weren’t necessarily things that I was seeking. It kind of just falls in my lap, and I just roll with it. And I had to kind of create those opportunities for myself. And along with that came the spark, or the need for my own business. And it came from a combination of love for technology and a desire to make a difference in my community because a lot of people from where I’m from or how I was raised they never really pushed themselves or believed in themselves to make it to that level of creating their own company or taking the chance or the step forward to make a difference maybe in their lives or other people’s lives. I faced a lot of challenges on the way, mainly just with believing in myself, and I kind of had to grow and learn confidence just through different experiences crossing paths with different people.
Bobbie Racette (10:35):
I mean, I’m going to chime in a little bit on that too, because I think, Jayde, you probably felt this too, but then once you started your own journey of being an entrepreneur and once good things would happen, it just encouraged you to go further and further and further. And then, before you know it, you’re an entrepreneur and there’s nothing that is ever going to change. That, because you’ve gotten that juice, that love, that feeling of freedom, but at the same time, the feeling of I can do it, and nobody, can tell me I can’t do it anymore, and it makes you feel so good.
Ryan St. Germaine (11:04):
I love these conversations because I feel like when people look at you now, they see the success – results of the efforts, of the struggle, of everything else. And the reality is that starting out in these things, a lot of times – I mean, some people do have a clearly defined plan, and they know where they’re going exactly when they start out. I know for me, when I started my first business, I had been doing outside sales for a while. Well, not my first business, my first successful business, let’s say. I was always trying to do something. I was on my way to Korea, I’d burnt out. I was doing sales at a high level, I was a top performer at the role I was at looking around at the people 20 years older than me going, do I really want to be doing this when I’m that age? And so, I stopped and I was going to go to create a train, Taekwondo and teach English, and my friend had created a job corps tech. And so, I’d love to say we had this huge strategy around how we were going to get it going. I knew nothing about technology at the time. I said to my friend, he said, what do you think? I said it looks cool. I’m not doing anything right now, how about I try to sell it and I never left. And so, I learned how to be a CEO. It’s like as your company grows, it’s like, oh, I guess I need to figure out how to do the bookkeeping. Now it’s like, oh, I guess I need to figure out how to hire an accountant and a bookkeeper now. Oh, we’re growing. I guess we need a software developer or this or that. Maybe tell me a little bit about how you got into tech? How you got into – either from a technical perspective or from an entrepreneurial’s perspective – and sort of what that journey looked like and if you stumbled into it like I did. Jayde, do you want to lead us off?
Jayde Pelly (12:24):
Yeah, sure. Well, how I got into tech kind of started with my love for video games and computers, films like The Matrix or iRobot with Will Smith. That all really sparked my interest from a young age. I was always fascinated with how things worked, particularly with software and how video games were created. Over time, I kind of realized I just wanted to become my own boss and create something of my own, whether that be a website or mobile application. Starting JDP Software Solutions was kind of like a natural step, especially since I noticed a gap in web design in Saskatoon. And yeah, that’s kind of what changed everything for me, was just taking the first step into creating the websites or mobile application and actually having it become successful.
Bobbie Racette (13:06):
That’s amazing. Just so you know, Jayde, it took me, I dunno, 20 hours of trying to do my own personal website, bobbieracette.com. Finally, I threw my hands up in the air, and I told my executive assistant to figure it out. I can’t do it. And now it’s an amazing site. And I’m like, oh, how did she do that? And how come I couldn’t? And I was so mad.
(13:24):
I guess what made me really decide was that in Calgary, which I mean is technically called the Canadian Texas, it’s really difficult to find work as a Queer Indigenous woman with tattoos everywhere. And I was laid off my oil and gas job. Nobody would hire me. Nobody. So, 10-12 months later, I took up working in a coffee shop, all I could do, and this was only seven years ago, and I was like, well, that’s just another dead-end job for me. And then, I started seeing gig economy and freelancer, and so, I thought, okay, I’m going to do it just to set up my own job. And so, I started being the virtual assistant, and then in first year it was like 265,000 revenue, and then the next year it was like 750[,000] and the third year of doing it, my own was 1.8 million. And I was like, okay, I’m onto something. So, I started raising money to build the platform. So, right before there I had no idea about technology. I wouldn’t have called myself a tech founder until just recently because I built it on Excel sheets and third-party platforms that I would rent and pay by the user seats. SaaS platforms. And then I raised all the money to build it on my own. And so then, building it on my own, I realized I needed – I’m a visionary, so I could tell people what I want, but it was like, I needed to learn myself too. So now, I follow on, know a lot about AI and talk about platforms, marketplace platforms, and leveraging and building tech to make it a profitable engine. So, I’m excited. I would have to say right now, where we’re at is the fun part because it’s the scale part. I mean, we’re in hypergrowth scale mode, and I have all these employees and people all over, and we’re launching in Asia and everything. And it’s just so much more than I’d expected because if you would’ve asked me three years ago or seven years ago when I was just learning all of it and had no money and was trying to figure it out, I would’ve laughed being like, I’m a tech founder. But it took four years in for me to start calling myself a tech founder. So, I think it goes back to the whole motivating thing. When you’re motivated by a success that you have, even if it’s just a little thing, then that’s where it’s easier and gets easier and motivates you more and inspires you and embraces you to just keep going.
Ryan St. Germaine (15:33):
It must be fairly amazing to look at what’s progressed thus far and to see yourself surrounded by people that are probably much smarter than you in their domain. And obviously, your vision, your passion and your knowledge got to this point, then all of a sudden, you have all these amazing people around you that you’ve gravitated towards the organization that are now taking it to that next level with you. Alright, so, Jayde, maybe tell us a little bit about how PLATO tied into your journey in technology?
Jayde Pelly (16:04):
Yeah, for sure. How PLATO tied into how my journey started with me doing the Indigenous [Software Tester] Training Program. After I completed that program, it opened my eyes and the door to different tech-related mentors and different tech-related groups of people that I can interact with. And it really gave me a sense of motivation. It just inspired me to pursue my career in tech and especially in Indigenous communities. And I really believe technology has the power to preserve and promote Indigenous culture. I hope my work will take a step in that direction.
Ryan St. Germaine (16:38):
Within Indigenous communities? So, how would you say PLATO inspired you to, it sounds like bring tech to Indigenous communities and also maybe working within your Nation for your role, as well?
Jayde Pelly (16:51):
Well, I am working on a project right now called it the Indigenous Sky Tracking App, and I’m working with a client that’s doing a lot of research on the creation stories for different constellations and we’re focusing on the Plains Cree constellations and how they translate into the English language. And this is something that really took me by surprise because I didn’t even know that different tribes would have their own star maps – their own versions of the constellations and creation stories. And that kind of blew my mind, but it kind of makes sense because before maps and GPS, how did people navigate? It was either through a landmark or looking up at the sky and navigating by the stars, and that all kind of, it made sense and it surprised me. We can use technology to preserve culture and history in that sense.
Ryan St. Germaine (17:48):
When we first started, one of my first companies, I remember we got a partnership opportunity with a company called the certified General Accountants of BC. And it was a big deal for us. It was a solutions contract, and nobody in their right mind would’ve invested or chosen us at the time. I remember the CTO there – cause it was a big deal and it was responsible for a lot of their technology. If it went wrong, it would’ve been really bad. And I remember, I think we had something like $40,000 in revenue and the CTO asked us if we could see our P&L. And I said P and what? And so, my friend Dan, who’s not Indigenous was a big champion of ours and sort of helped us to get going to get that first contract. And so, maybe, if you can just tell us about – I like to call folks co-conspirators, folks that are willing to really stake their reputation and support early on. As any founder, I think that’s a risk. And then obviously it can be harder and it is harder I think a lot of times for us. So, maybe tell me a little bit about somebody who championed your work and who was a big supporter and what that meant to you at that phase of your career?
Jayde Pelly (18:53):
Well, somebody that’s really championed my work would be my previous client, she was a massage spa owner and she helps me network within her own network and she really spotlighted the work that I did for her website. And I think it’s essential to an innovation. Providing mentorship, resources that co-conspirators can provide it really amplifies Indigenous voices in tech and not only Indigenous voices in tech, it’s all about creating an inclusive and diverse tech industry, whether you’re Indigenous or not.
Bobbie Racette (19:26):
For me, it was actually one of my early investors. I was at Arlene Dickinson’s Tech Accelerator, and we moved into her space, and we got matched with tech – and a lot of them didn’t really know tech, but we got matched with tech mentors. And Ryan was his name, Ryan is his name. He still sits on my Board of Directors and he totally believed in me right for the moment. We all had to stand up and pitch them so they could select which one of us in the accelerator that they wanted to match with. He, as a non-Indigenous person, took it upon himself to learn about the Indigenous life, to educate himself, and to learn just so he knew how to work with me. And one of the things that I’d realized is those co-conspirators can be anybody, but the real co-conspirators in my opinion, are the ones that they use their influence resources and platforms to uplift you. And that they advocate for Indigenous-led solutions more, even if it’s investing in businesses and challenging systemic barriers with their own organizations and what they’re doing. But at least they’re helping you and understanding and knowing that in order for Indigenous innovation to thrive, we need our allies to stand by us. He really understood that and took it to heart. And so, he, to this day, is speed dial. I call him every day, and we talk every day. He’s my mentor. So yeah, if it wasn’t for him, I don’t know. I think we’d still be here would’ve just been a much more lonely road.
Ryan St. Germaine (20:46):
Now, Bobbie, I don’t know why, but I can actually remember this number. I’ve heard you say it on Powwow Pitch and in a few other places, in terms of – I think it was – let’s see if I get it right. You had 270 “No’s”, I think, from venture folks?
Bobbie Racette (20:57):
It was 170 “No’s”, so close.
Ryan St. Germaine (21:01):
– So I don’t have it right!
Bobbie Racette (21:03):
When I was raising, I went through 170 “No’s” before I got my one “Yes”. And that was Raven Indigenous Capital.
Ryan St. Germaine (21:09):
And so, looking back at the challenges that you faced in the rearview mirror, what would’ve been nice to see? What would’ve been some of the things that could have better supported you in the ecosystem to help you get the business going? And what do you think’s missing that we need?
Bobbie Racette (21:23):
Okay, so not too long ago, I was pretty much the first and only Indigenous CEO in Canada. And then, that led me to be the first Indigenous CEO to close a Series-A funding round, and I am about to close a Series B here pretty quickly. Well, I’m happy with that title. I don’t necessarily think I should have been the first with how far we are in life and where we’re at. I think that that just puts down the issue as to the problem that we have right now, which is we need more access to capital for Indigenous-led businesses without taking equity, for example. And I know Ryan, we’re talking a lot about this at the Indigenous Tech Circle and ways that we can help with this. So, it’s really good because it’s needed. And so, those are some of the things that we’re doing as well at Indigenous Prosperity Foundation, trying to help and give access to tools and resources to Indigenous entrepreneurs, help get access to capital, help them learn to scale, help them learn to sell their business to raise money because these are things that none of us know and we didn’t have. And as Jayde and I had mentioned before is that we didn’t have that and understand that. We just all had to learn it ourselves where – that’s the thing that was a challenge. And it is a challenge now. But I mean, as you said, with Indigenous Tech Circle with 400 members, there’s so many of us now, and we’re doing it, and we’re supporting each other.
Ryan St. Germaine (22:37):
It’s not so lonely in tech anymore. And maybe this is, you know what, I’m going to sneak in a little announce here. I wasn’t intending to do this, but to that point, I just confirmed the name and Indigenous Tech Fund is coming to life a $20 million fund. We have a lot of support from some early folks. And even with that though, to your point, I think that fills a big gap in the market right now. There is no precede funding, but there are also no friends, family, and fools. So we need a syndicate of Indigenous angel investors. We need foundational money coming in as grants and that sort of thing. And so we need all of these things firing because the statement, friends, family, and fools, which you hear in startup land. That is a ridiculous statement to an Indigenous founder. And the same risk is not equal. If you’ve got a place to live and food to eat, if things go wrong, that’s very different than if you’re, say, a single mom who’s got two kids. And if you make a mistake, you’re out on the street. That is not the same risk.
Jayde Pelly (23:31):
Yes. Yeah.
Ryan St. Germaine (23:32):
I echo and thank you for bringing that up because it is such an important piece that we want to see more companies scale. We need to – money is medicine. We need more capital going into them and allowing more Indigenous folks to fail.
Jayde Pelly (23:44):
A lot of Indigenous entrepreneurs may not always have access to collateral or credit history, or networks needed to secure these loans. And I think that’s what’s been holding back a lot of entrepreneurs that have a vision. I think the solutions to that could be more government programs or initiatives tailored to supporting Indigenous businesses, such as the Indigenous Business Development Strategy. And there could be a little bit more crowdfunding platforms or local Indigenous Development Funds being supported by different band offices. If there was additional access to grants specifically for Indigenous businesses or tech-focused initiatives, that could open up a lot more opportunities across Canada. But I feel like our options are very limited when it comes to funding these ideas.
Bobbie Racette (24:29):
I think another thing with that is even if there were grants as Indigenous folks, especially in the communities, we’re not educated or shown how to write these grants. And I only know this because of Virtual Gurus is that we’ve relied heavily on grants while I was trying to raise money. It’s a full-time job having to write your reporting for grants. The documents is out of this world. One of our grants that we’ve gotten a few years ago is a 54-page grant every quarter that we have to write. How am I supposed to spend time scaling the business if I’m sitting there writing grants? So, access to grants could be a little bit more achievable if we would take that down and narrow those down to just the real data that they need to allow the grant as opposed to checking what size our socks are. It just gets so much. Too heavy.
Ryan St. Germaine (25:15):
Yeah, to your point, it’s insane. And some of these grants you find as well, too – some of you find are actually quite easy, and they’re larger grants. And then sometimes you have just this insane amount of reporting for $10,000 that you didn’t realize what you were getting into until after you started the process. And they want your blood for the rest of your life in terms of the scale of your business so that they can show that that $10,000 grant was what was the catalyst for your success. I think it’s a good segue into, now that you’re seeing success in your career, Bobbie, I know how much you do from past conversations and Jayde, just from conversations before and how you’re answering, I know how important it’s to support and to lift up the people. Maybe what’s next in terms of that, in terms of the roles that you see yourself playing in order to support future generations and to support the growth of the ecosystem?
Jayde Pelly (26:03):
Alright, well what’s next for my business or for me in tech? I think what’s next for my business is to scale up and expand to other cities, potentially including the US market. I’m really passionate about preserving culture and history through technology, and I aim to create more products that highlight Indigenous stories. My long-term goal is to expand the team and hire employees, creating a sustainable company that promotes growth and innovation. But right now, currently not at that level. I’d like to consider myself a small-time tech entrepreneur, but eventually, we’ll get to that level and scale up. Humble beginnings.
Ryan St. Germaine (26:38):
Well, and it’s interesting as well, too; we all come at different stages and different times as well. I remember the start of my business and especially those early times, and as you scale as well too, you just see different challenges that come up as you grow. It’s like how do we make a first dollar? How do you make your first $10,000, then get to $100 thousand, then $500 a million? And the funny thing is, is that every step of the way, everything that you’ve done to that point breaks, you have to redo it over again. So, it’s this constant iterative process and also reinventing yourself as you go. So, I’m excited for the journey you’re on and grateful for the work you’re doing.
Bobbie Racette (27:12):
Yeah, I’m a firm believer of it doesn’t matter this size of your business, whether you have somebody like you, Jayde, have a small business, a startup that is needed. You’re doing it, and it’s working for you versus having a large scale-up like mine. Because at the end of the day, everybody’s number one thing is to scale. And scaling can come in different stages. I guess that would be mine, as I’m focused on scaling. We’re fully expanded into the US now. I’m off to Asia. I was in Vietnam and Taiwan trying to get it out there. And when I say getting it out there, it’s not meaning that we’re going to hire offshore freelancers or anything. It’s more so that we’re going to be launching our AI-powered platform out there because our AI-powered platform speaks 48 languages right now and growing. Really, it’s just filling that VG connect, enhancing that customer engagement to businesses. And right now, one of the main things is we’re pushing boundaries on how AI can support workforces. So, it’s really working well for us.
(28:08):
But beyond Virtual Gurus, I am super passionate about Indigenous innovation in tech. So I’m really working hard on being the chair of the Indigenous Prosperity Foundation, where we’re trying to bring more, I guess, resources and tools and funding and everything into Indigenous communities for businesses, for early-stage businesses. And then also really passionate about growing ethical AI and just raising my Series B and continue going, just continue trucking along with all the other amazing Indigenous entrepreneurs.
Ryan St. Germaine (28:36):
Amazing. I think I’ve just found our final question from that as well too. And one of the things that I like to say to folks is that running a business is deeply personal. How you choose to do it is a reflection of you, your values, and what you prioritize. And so, different types of funding are for very specific things a lot of the time, and sometimes we don’t understand that. And I hear folks say things like, venture is good or bad, or debt is good or bad, or you should only strap. And it’s usually the right tool for the job in terms of that. And it’s working backwards to say, what do I want this business to look like at the end? And then also the realities of capital expensive ventures that sometimes the riskier thing is not to take money because you end up carrying the burden of all that risk yourself. So, if you were to talk to a founder and sort of help them navigate what their path was going to be, maybe you could just break down the different paths that you could take and maybe what that looks like to you? So, maybe just your thoughts on business around that. Sometimes, taking money is a really bad idea, right? And so, you take the grants and things that are available, and you bootstrap and you have to go maybe a little bit slower and take a few less risks and things like that. So, that’s a hard question, but maybe if that pops anything up for you both, I’d love to hear your thoughts on that.
Bobbie Racette (29:55):
There is a lot to unpack, but I certainly think that when you are starting out – for example, when I first started Virtual Gurus, I thought I could just build it, and I was not – I didn’t even know what the word bootstrap meant at the time. I just took it up to about $1.8 million in revenue without raising money. And I’m like, oh, okay, well, this must be pretty good. And then I started going to startup events, and people are like, ah, you’re going to need to raise money to build a platform on your own. So, at that point, I could have chose to continue bootstrapping and just continue using third party because, let’s be real, when you have technology and want to build technology, you need money to do that. And that’s difficult where I could have chose to just bootstrap and kept going the third-party route and using third-party platforms and could have done that. But I made the decision to build it on my own. Build my own platform, build all of it, because I wanted to do it in my own way. I wanted it to be an Indigenous-built platform. I wanted it to be all of that. And so, to do that, I had to start raising money, and I had no idea where to start. And that was a scary, scary thing. And while I’m happy I did, I think, in retrospect, I wish I didn’t because once you start funding, you’re always funding. Once you start taking money and VC bags, there’s no stopping. You have to continue. And it’s really difficult because then more and more it becomes less your business, and it’s harder and harder. So, I think it’s really just what you want. I guess, you got to sit down and think, do I want to just scale this on my own and do it in my own way and take it out into the world the way I deserve it on my terms and want that? Or do I want this to be a big thing where I am building it to exit one day? And I think those are the things you just have to ask yourself those questions to see what you really want. But at the same time, my number one advice is just do major due diligence into if raising is what you really want to do. Talk to people who have raised and figure out what was good for them and what was bad for them. Cause there’s pros and cons to it. Yeah, I think it’s always going to be a hard decision, especially when it comes to tech.
Ryan St. Germaine (31:54):
Yeah, it really is. It’s a matter of speed, and it’s a very definitive style of doing it. You have to let go of the business itself and be on the journey of doing that process, and you’re on a timeline. Venture funds, a lot of people don’t know this, but venture funds are a 10-year cycle, and so they have to have a liquidity event at a certain point within that. So, once you do that, there’s certain expectations that come, which I think is great if you’re trying to grow something that’s really big and you know that speed is of the essence. That’s awesome. And Jayde, what are your thoughts in terms of how – and how do you run yours, and what do you think personally? What would you love to see from it as well, too?
Jayde Pelly (32:30):
Well, personally, I agree with Bobbie. I really do think bootstrapping can absolutely help you stay small, and it’s very common. It’s a common approach for entrepreneurs prefer to maintain control over their business without relying on external funding. And I think it ultimately really boils down to what you want or what you value as an owner. Do you eventually want to exit? Sell the company? Or do you want to maintain it at the size that it at without outside investors or venture capital? And that can help you maintain control over your business, right? It will help you decide the direction of your business based on your own personal values, your culture, or your goals rather than outside pressure from investors seeking that rapid growth and high returns. You don’t have to give up equity or dilute your ownership if you just bootstrap it and keep it small. It allows you to keep full control over your company’s trajectory. And personally, I would have the option to go that route, but I would like to just keep it small, so to speak, and just bootstrap and maintain full control over my vision for my company. It helps you grow at a pace that’s comfortable for you instead of scaling up when maybe you’re not ready. You can kind of prioritize quality over quantity that way and focusing on serving your niche market rather than aiming for that rapid mass market penetration. It helps you stay lean
Ryan St. Germaine (33:52):
I was going to ask – I think you’ve answered it, but I was going to ask if you saw funding in your future, and maybe it’s the wrong question as well too. Cause it sounds like your goal is just to build a better business.
Jayde Pelly (34:01):
Build a better business, currently. Yes.
Ryan St. Germaine (34:03):
Create some optionality for yourself. And I think there’s a book, Side Hustles Chris Guillebeau, and it’s an interesting one where it talks about purposely not scaling, purposely not hiring anybody. Creating a cashflow business that has a lot of profit in it as well too. And I think there’s a lot to be said for doing step function growth and trying to hire people as well, too. But I think we can get caught up in the hype of different models, and I think they’re great. I mean, hey, I’m launching a pre-seed fund. I’m all forcing more Indigenous-led companies to scale, but it’s a deeply personal endeavour that I think requires the founder to almost disqualify themselves and go, no, I don’t want to do it that way. Or yeah, I understand it, and I’m going for it.
(34:44):
This has been an absolute pleasure. I’m so excited that I’ve had the opportunity to sit and chat with you both today. It has made my morning better. Thank you so much for joining us. And with that, I’d like to thank everybody for tuning in. I know that these conversations are something that will continue here on PLATO Panel Talks and we’d love to hear from our listeners. If there’s anything we chatted about today that resonates with you, you can connect with me and it’s Ryan St. Germaine on LinkedIn and with PLATO on @PLATOTesting on LinkedIn and on Instagram as well. Also, the episode will be up on the PLATO website. So, we’d love it if you could rate and review PLATO Panel Talks on whatever platform you’re listening on if you’re enjoying these discussions. So thank you again for listening, and we will talk to you again soon.